Dr. Kimberly Holmes, a proud HBCU Tuskegee University alumna and beacon of inspiration in the educational realm, shares her story of triumph, faith, and the pursuit of shaping a formidable legacy. We unravel her journey from the spiritual and musical roots in Alabama to the corridors of HBCUs, where she now steers young minds towards futures brimming with promise.
The essence of mentorship and representation takes center stage as Dr. Holmes recounts the challenges of being a black woman in STEM, her ascent through academia, and the invaluable support she received from a network of trailblazers. These candid tales shed light on the power of community and the necessity of nurturing diverse perspectives in sparking innovation. Whether it's tackling a vehicle recall crisis or navigating corporate America, our conversation serves as a beacon for all aspiring to break barriers and forge their own paths in STEM and beyond.
This episode isn't merely a listen; it's a call to action, inviting you to embrace your unique talents and contribute to a narrative that transcends time. And as we bid farewell, remember that the quest for excellence is a relentless journey—one that Dr. Holmes and I are thrilled to accompany you on in your educational pursuits.
Dr. Kimberly Holmes, a proud HBCU Tuskegee University alumna and beacon of inspiration in the educational realm, shares her story of triumph, faith, and the pursuit of shaping a formidable legacy. We unravel her journey from the spiritual and musical roots in Alabama to the corridors of HBCUs, where she now steers young minds towards futures brimming with promise.
The essence of mentorship and representation takes center stage as Dr. Holmes recounts the challenges of being a black woman in STEM, her ascent through academia, and the invaluable support she received from a network of trailblazers. These candid tales shed light on the power of community and the necessity of nurturing diverse perspectives in sparking innovation. Whether it's tackling a vehicle recall crisis or navigating corporate America, our conversation serves as a beacon for all aspiring to break barriers and forge their own paths in STEM and beyond.
This episode isn't merely a listen; it's a call to action, inviting you to embrace your unique talents and contribute to a narrative that transcends time. And as we bid farewell, remember that the quest for excellence is a relentless journey—one that Dr. Holmes and I are thrilled to accompany you on in your educational pursuits.
to be a baller. Welcome to be a baller. I'm your host, Coach Tim Brown, where we discuss how to build a lifelong legacy. I'm so excited today that we'll be talking about building a legacy in education with Dr Kimberly Holmes. Today on the show, Dr Holmes will share her experience growing up in Tuskegee, Alabama, and being a proud HBCU graduate of Tuskegee University. Dr Holmes has committed her life to exposing and encouraging students to pursue higher education. Dr Holmes, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Coach. I'm delighted to be with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we go way back to the old KSU days. Our son was a student there and you kind of well, you did take him under your wing, you know mentioned him, got him through and I ended up getting I think I had a master's in accounting from Kentucky State. Now he's doing well as a front office personnel, but in the other places and we give you and God credit for that one you know he does that first one in college. We didn't know what we were doing. You know it's just, but you came out the right time, so I want to thank you for that. Dr Holmes recently graduated from the National Historical Black Colleges and Universities Executive Leadership Institute in Atlanta, Georgia. She completed the program and received her certification, along with 32 others during the 2023 fellows. This program includes a virtual coaching component and matches each fellow with a past or current HBCU president who serves as a mentor. Dr Holmes, can you talk about the program and specifically about your mentor in the program and lessons you learned from that experience?
Speaker 2:Sure, sure will. And again, thank you so much, coach Brown, for the opportunity to speak to you, but I also want to take a moment and acknowledge you for being the legendary leader that you are and your demonstration of leadership that impacts local communities to worldwide audiences. You don't know it because I don't say it very often, but you are one of the top people I have categorized as called to ball. You are a baller in your own right, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:And we certainly want to celebrate you as well. You know, as I watch what's happening around the country, I see that some people try to fake it until they make it with more lip service. When the cameras are on, then real service that uplifts everyone. But you have put your faith into action and it's a beautiful thing to witness. Many of us are inspired to do more in our own communities as we see the fruits of your labor, so I wanted to acknowledge you at this time. Now, as it relates to the Executive Leadership Institute, or ELI as we call it, I was humbled and very fortunate to be selected, hosted by Clark Atlanta University.
Speaker 2:Fellows like myself benefited from sessions with a wide range of past and current, historically Black College and University presidents. We learned what it takes, what it took for them to achieve at their greatest successes, but also how they overcame their greatest challenges and even failures. We heard from such legendary leaders as Dr Geneta Cole, who encouraged us to exercise our leadership skills with unapologetic courage, integrity and innovation. As far as mentoring, I benefited from formal mentorship of Dr Phyllis Worthy Dawkins, president Emerita of Bennett College, and informal mentorship of Dr Cheryl Davenport Dozier, president Emerita of Savannah State University. These phenomenal women and leaders in their own right coached me through the 13 competencies embedded in the leadership program curriculum.
Speaker 2:These competencies were related to fundraising, financial stability, leading change, enrollment growth, campus safety, building, maintenance and sustaining effective teams, leading during changing times, ongoing social justice challenges, navigating governing boards and protecting the reputation of the university, among other topics.
Speaker 2:So, as you can hear, we covered a very wide range, and it was about a year long program. Other lessons learned were related to the balance between addressing internal needs of the institution with the ever demanding need to secure external resources. It is rarely easy to invest the time needed to improve organizational efficiency and effectiveness while building internal trust, I might add, and simultaneously investing the time necessary for cultivating the relationships that lead to large scale allocations of funds, gifts and donations to the university. This challenge, then, is why it is critically important to build and sustain high performing and diverse teams across all departments and at all levels, where such diversity may include skills, backgrounds, experiences and competencies. Ongoing professional development of all employees was also a commonly discussed thing, along with organizational culture and building a healthy culture, and we concluded that, by working together, the balance between internal and external demands is much more attainable and the university wins, along with its students, faculty staff, alumni and other stakeholders.
Speaker 1:Steve, sound like you ready, you ready. Sound like you are ready. Yeah, you ready for that. That's awesome, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:As I think about it and as I completed the ELI, I came to understand better that my leadership style can probably be classified as highly collaborative, transformational, certainly entrepreneurial, with lots of creativity and innovation, but also that of a servant leader. I believe in working hard and being solution focused. I believe in transparency, accountability and the fact that if I or we fail, let me or us fail, forward and learn the lesson that will help us to get up and try better the next time. I have shared with students many times over that the formula for success can be expressed mathematically, where the word success equals preparation plus opportunity. Again, success equals sign preparation plus sign opportunity.
Speaker 1:As we go back to your experience growing up, you grew up in Tuskegee, alabama. Can you talk about your parents and the community that you grew up in in the South, because it's a little different growing up in the South.
Speaker 2:I imagine. So You're right. I grew up in Tuskegee University, born on the campus of the University John Andrew Hospital. Parents were from that area as well. Mom from Tuskegee. My dad was from a neighboring town called Notosoga, alabama. Dad did not graduate from high school. You know he grew up in a time when you went. You were a sharecropper more than you pursued education. Mom did get some more education, thankfully, but they raised eight of us in some very challenging circumstances. We were, on the other hand, very fortunate that my maternal grandfather donated the land that was used to create an elementary school, and so we grew up in that. We came through the same elementary school Chislam Elementary in rural Tuskegee, alabama and came through the elementary school, went on to junior high, high school at Tuskegee Institute High School, and then I was fortunate to get a scholarship to Tuskegee University to pursue electrical engineering.
Speaker 2:On my dad's side, as I mentioned, dad didn't graduate from high school. His father was a survivor of the Tuskegee Simplis experiment, so history and culture were very important in our family. We didn't have a lot in terms of material wealth, but I must say we had so much love for each other in our family that we didn't think we missed anything because the love was so prevalent. Although my dad didn't graduate from high school, he and our mom heavily emphasized the importance of getting as much education as we possibly could. As I watched my dad interact with animals in the School of Veterinary Medicine, I could clearly see he had natural wisdom and intellectual ability, but he didn't have the opportunities to pursue more education in the time in which he grew up, and that really hurt me. He shared with us that he wanted us to be able to pursue whatever job or career we wanted, and if that career required more education, he and our mom were in full support of pursuit of it. He and our mom constantly reinforced the belief that all things were possible if we had faith in God and did the work that must follow our faith. He and our mom were wonderful examples and role models of strong faith in the Heavenly Father, hard work, perseverance and integrity.
Speaker 2:My mom later completed a credential because she too had great intellectual ability in addition to her natural wisdom.
Speaker 2:With her accomplishments, the message became very clear that the best investment we could ever make was in ourselves, through our faith, coupled with education. As their children, then, we have tried not only to follow the examples they said, but to honor those examples through our service to the community in various ways. With the realization that my dad never reached his educational potential, and with the desire to serve our communities as was modeled by our parents, I decided I would commit myself personally and professionally to helping others reach their full potential. To this day, my greatest fulfillment comes from helping others develop visions for themselves that may go beyond the circumstances of the moment. My work involves ensuring that their hopes, dreams and aspirations do not die on the vine of possibility and helping them to find their path to reaching their full potential as quickly as possible. I know that we don't have a moment to lose, but I also know that we are relentless in our pursuit of excellence for the betterment of our homes, our communities, our country and even the world.
Speaker 1:Can you talk a little bit about? I know you're a strong woman of faith. Can you talk about your faith journey?
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. In thinking about it, I would say my faith journey probably started before I knew me, because God said he knew me before I knew me and with that, as I mentioned, the foundation of my family, a strong family of faith. So faith was always implemented in our family. We always saw these demonstrations of faith growing up in Tuskegee and certainly through those very challenging times, we had abundance of love, we had abundance of faith, and I can think of situations where my parents' faith was tested and they continuously communicated their faith through their words but also their action. They even started a gospel singing group called the Sweet Sounding Heavily Harmonizers of Tuskegee Alameda All right man.
Speaker 2:They traveled all over the state, traveled to Georgia and some neighboring states, but they used their talents and gifts to encourage and uplift others in every community that would invite them in. And that was always the model my sisters and I, my sisters and brothers and I saw and remember there were eight of us. That was the model we saw growing up, so it was natural for us to think in our own lives and in our own ways, using our own talents and gifts. How could we serve to make our communities better? My sisters now lead the group that they lead the group now that both of our parents have passed, unfortunately, and I must also say that it has taken great steps of faith to live without our parents. We miss them by the minute, but we lean heavenly on what they establish in us and the legacy of love they left with us as a guide in our family now, and so that's the model I've used in pattern in my life's work app.
Speaker 1:And I mean when you hear preaching, as you were saying that I was thinking about, won't he do it?
Speaker 2:Yes, he will.
Speaker 1:Eight children and look at God. I think he left. Look at God. You're attended Tuskegee University in your hometown, so you're an HBC crew. I mean you were born on the camp, you grew up through and through HBC. Can you talk about growing up in that enriched historical black college culture and your experiences?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had the best time at Tuskegee in undergrad. I can think of going to all types of cultural events where we met people and like anything I'd seen growing up in rural Tuskegee, alabama, and they challenged us to think very differently about who we are, how we thought about ourselves and what we thought we could become. And that's probably the greatest thing I picked up at Tuskegee University was a very sense of what I could become, because I didn't necessarily have that growing up in a limited resource environment. But when I was on the campus and spoke to people who may have even seen more in me than I saw in myself, it challenged me to think differently about how far I could go in life, and so I think I'm so passionate about mentoring that I think I'm so passionate about mentoring because of the way I was mentored by so many people who may not have known my background at all. They just saw a person who smiled a lot because I do smile a lot and decided they would invest in me in these ways that I could never really pay back to them, but I could pay it forward. I did have the pleasure when I was at Kentucky State University of being a mentor to your son and I'll tell you a quick story that might be a good illustration of what I mean.
Speaker 2:I attended a meeting, I wanna say, in one of the colleges to discuss some challenges some students had raised. And in attending that meeting in one of the colleges, I saw a young man in the audience. He may have asked a question or two, and I walked up to that young man after that meeting was over and said I'm working the Cooperative Extension Building on campus. Come and see me sometime. And he said okay, ma'am, what's your name? I told him my name. I told him promise to come see me.
Speaker 2:So when he came to see me, I said I don't know why I feel compelled to tell you this, but I need to tell you that there is something unique and special in you that you have to nurture. There are places God has designed for you to be and there are things he needs for you to do that only you can do. But you've got to separate yourself from some people and some things in your life right now that will prevent you from being all that he has for you to be. I don't know why I need to tell you this, but I need you to hear it from me, and if you want me to help you on that pathway, I'm willing to do that. And that young man's name was Tim Brown Julie.
Speaker 1:Nice, amen Amen.
Speaker 2:And so there are people who did that for me when I was an undergrad. So it was very easy for me to pass that along to some mother youth when I had the opportunity, and of course I look for opportunities to do that now as well.
Speaker 1:What a story I'm living. Proof of that. I know the story, you know. Look at that. I get to see it and that's why I encourage you and thank you for that. You know Tuskegee. You majored in electrical engineering. I did. You furthered your education, received a master's from Georgia Tech University and engineer. How was that? Being an early pioneer in the STEM field for black females? Were there a lot of students? Were there a lot of others in your class, black that looked like you? How was that experience?
Speaker 2:I appreciate it. I don't necessarily think I was a pioneer so much as the people who came before me. There were, thankfully, women in a wide range of engineering disciplines when I came along at Tuskegee and at Georgia Tech. But what I can share is those women were very instrumental in my success and the success of my peers and beyond. There were days when I would walk across the campus of Georgia Tech especially and I would say I can't do it, I can't make it, I'm not going to get through this, and one of the young ladies who was in one of the doctoral programs in engineering would pull me aside, would pull some of my classmates aside because they knew that, look, they knew what we were experiencing in that moment and the challenges we were facing being a minority in multiple ways. Right, black female engineering in some context can be three blessings, but in other contexts can be three different challenges you're facing and have to overcome, and maybe I should say, work your way through. So those black female doctoral engineering students would pull us aside and say, yes, you can. You made it in and you'll make it out. You will do this because you have it in you. We just need to figure out how to provide resources and a support system around you for you to be successful. And, sure enough, we absolutely were successful.
Speaker 2:I can remember, at graduation at Georgia Tech, the commencement speaker saying you get out of the military and you get out of jail and you get out of Georgia Tech, you don't graduate.
Speaker 2:And, of course, as the graduates were sitting there looking at each other, like he really understands us. I feel so, seen in this moment, tuskegee was a different experience because you were in an environment that inherently was nurturing and inherently encouraging, and there were these messages of affirmation just all over the campus and in any class I walked into at Tuskegee and I can say this genuinely the professors will like look, kid, you put your bootstraps on, we're getting ready to go up and you are on this train and you are moving up and you better be ready because we're ready to take you. And I really did. I enjoyed classes. My physics professor in undergrad I can't remember his name right now, but I can see him so clearly he would jump. He was so excited working out physics problems on the board that he would literally jump off the floor with excitement. And if your professor is that excited about the subject, how can you not be that excited?
Speaker 3:about a subject right.
Speaker 2:So I'm amazed in his class, because his enthusiasm was contagious and I loved it and we loved it.
Speaker 1:That's great. That leads us to our next question. You started out working in corporate America. Can you tell y'all how that HBCU experience in Georgia Tech prepared you for that first employment?
Speaker 2:I guess, prepared me well. Certainly, I kind of mentioned that. You know it was an environment in which you experienced the challenges. But you learn how to overcome the challenges. And it was the same thing when I moved into professional engineering. I hired into an engineering firm in Kokomo, indiana, and I remember in that very first year we ended up in a recall on the product line in which I was working. So I hired into a product systems engineering position. My product line was the Antelope break and traction control electronic controller for this particular by type model of car. And we entered into a recall in that first year of employment, which meant we were working seven days a week, 10 to 12 hours a day, to try to figure out what the recall was so we could quickly delve into what the appropriate fix might be.
Speaker 2:And you mentioned a faith journey. That was a big journey as well. Right, because we woke up, we had to believe a fix was there. We had to believe we could find the recalls in a rapid time frame, deliver that fix to audiences that needed us immediately. I mean, there were, there were people who were experiencing issues with their vehicles that were safety related issues, and we need, we really needed to move quickly. So even that part of my journey included a level of faith, because we had to have faith in our ability to determine the recalls, faith that we could find the fix and then faith that we could quickly deploy that fix so that when people got into their vehicles they felt safe and the. So the resilience we we developed at, the resilience we developed at Georgia Tech certainly led into showing that resiliency during some challenging times as a professional in the engineering field.
Speaker 1:You know STEM is real popular. Now you know we talk about science. How, about STEM schools? For you what? Why is that so important, in particular, for people of color and particularly young ladies and women to get involved in the STEM area?
Speaker 2:Yes it's all about. So there are two philosophies around representation. You may remember that my terminal degrees in public affairs, which is public policy, and leadership. So when we think about representation, there's compositional representation and there's substantive representation. Substantive representation says I have the same interests as you, we have the same goals and things we'd like to see happen is from a public good standpoint.
Speaker 2:But that comp compositional representation is it's healthy for me to see people like me in different areas of society.
Speaker 2:So it was healthy for me as a student coming from a limited resource background and a very limited rural community, to see blacks with terminal degrees, to see women with terminal degrees, and not just with terminal degrees but terminal degrees across all fields of study. So that's that descriptive representation. So from that perspective it's important to see persons from all backgrounds in all fields of study. But certainly because we know that blacks and females are historically underrepresented in STEM science, technology, engineering and math because so underrepresented, it becomes even more important that we nurture and encourage those with the aptitude, who also have the interest to pursue STEM fields, because their presence is so valuable, not just from the compositional representation but because also there is a diversity of thought that comes from them being in that room, based on their unique experiences, based on their unique thought patterns. That's also going to create an environment that is healthier, and the products and services that are spring forth from that healthier environment are going to be better, in service to all.
Speaker 1:Like how you explained those two different thought processes, which are really good. You got to need to see somebody like you. We talk about this all the time. You have to see somebody that's in that field. That's like you. It looks like you.
Speaker 2:It definitely helps, absolutely. It helps you to understand and believe that you can achieve in that area as well, to see people like you already doing already in that field and excelling in that field. They're not just there, but they're excelling.
Speaker 1:Yes, excelling, you were excelling, we do excellence. Now we know that we're by excellence. Now, as we think about this, your transition from corporate America to begin a career in a college education administration. How did that come about? What was the lifeboat moment that, hey, I want to do this.
Speaker 2:Yes, I was working in engineering and I was involved in youth ministry at a church in Kokomo, indiana Shout out to anyone in Kokomo who might hear the podcast. I was working in youth ministry and I'm talking to young people who, when we talked about career possibilities and career options, you know linking back to that conversation around, seeing beyond what they might think they could do and be. We were having these conversations and everyone, to a student, wanted to either be a professional athlete or a rapper, and I found myself saying you know, those are okay if they are obtainable, but what I would suggest to you is the path way to success in being a professional athlete is a very, very narrow. In your region of the country, your state, your division of the state, your county right, your high school, if you're not already a standout in those areas, it's not impossible, it's just less likely.
Speaker 2:So, to the extent that it, may not work out the way you want to become a professional athlete? What are you going to do in the meantime? We can't all be gold medalists in the Olympics, but we can all be gold medalists in the classroom, right? There's another path, way you can choose, where you can still be excellent, because God has put something super in each of us, and so I want to help you figure out what your super is, and then I want to help you to optimize your options so you can be super in that as well, right? So, as it relates to being a rapper or the same thing, it's not that it's not. It's not that it's totally impossible. It's not impossible.
Speaker 2:It's just you've got to figure out if you're really on the pathway to being the greatest success in that and probably more importantly, is that aligned with what is super in you, not just what you see in your environment, in the media, you know, on TV and that kind of thing? So in having those conversations with youth and then having conversations with God about the conversations I was having with you, I finally got this this call to make the left the proverbial left turn at Albuquerque to go from engineering as a discipline to engineering education and moving from engineering as a discipline to engineering education, found myself in a successive pattern of leadership roles.
Speaker 1:Talk about the. We talked about that transition. I was at first. That first experience, you know, on that college campus work with those students, you know now you saw me in youth ministry at 14, 15 years old talking about being rappers and all that. Now you see him on the college campus. Talk about that experience. You know the mindset, the mindset.
Speaker 2:Yes, definitely had to put a lot of time and effort into developing a growth mindset, and what I've heard a pastor preach about in terms of the power of a changed mind Right, we had to. We had to do the work of changing some students minds because they were committed to something that wasn't the healthiest option for them. And so, even so, my first experience coming out of engineering to engineering education was actually at a PWI, a predominantly white institution. So, and what I found in going to that PWI environment is the minority students needed as much attention there as a student might need at an HBCU. So I was using I was using those skills in very different environments but in very similar ways, because the students were still the student, and so it was having conversations around how you're spending your time, what you're spending your time on, what you're making a priority and the fact that we know what you make a priority by how you spend your time.
Speaker 2:Those things are not they're not disparate, they're not disconnected, they're inherently connected. So if your priorities are where they should be, because you have made a public declaration of your intent to get a degree, then your effort has to be applied in a similar fashion. You can't say I'm going to spend all my time playing video games, but you want to get a degree in engineering. But you want to get a degree in computer science. A good engineering student can help design that game that you're playing. Do you want to be the person who just plays the game, or do you want to be the person who just plays the game or the person who designs a well-constructed game? So in making that case, we were able to change their mind, which then changed their behavior, because, of course, my goal for them is graduation, and the only way we get to graduation is to put that faith in action, like we talked about.
Speaker 1:Well, you got me fired up, boy. I need to go back to college. And listen, you're just out of the BSD plus, you can do it.
Speaker 2:And we will help you get there.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right. You know this is a legacy podcast. You know, we talk about legacy and we talk about being intentional, about building a lifelong legacy. You hear that word legacy. What does that word mean to you?
Speaker 2:I guess the legacy for me is knowing that I've applied my best effort to helping someone else succeed. That's my greatest sense of fulfillment is knowing that someone else made it because I didn't give up, I didn't give out, I didn't tap out. And not only did I not tap out, but I helped them figure it out in terms of their pathway forward. That's what the legacy means to me. If I've helped someone else figure out their pathway forward, I've done what God put me here to do.
Speaker 1:If you just say something that I didn't tap out, I'll help them figure it out, even dropping some jigs and you know, as we wrap up or come around the corner. This has been a great conversation but I don't want to end it yet. I want you to have an extensive list of community service. You know, being involved in sorority and Africa Powerful, being a member of the NAACP and numerous others. Why is paying forward kind of what we've been talking about? Why is that so important to you?
Speaker 2:It's important to me because that was, as I mentioned, that was the model I grew up with, and that being making sure others have the best opportunity possible that I can help provide. If I can help provide it, then I'm going to do the work to provide it. And speaking for people who may not have the opportunity to speak for themselves is also very important, especially from the standpoint of public policymaking and allocation of resources. So by providing that community service, I hope that I have been able to help students on their pathway to success, but also broader members of the community who may be experiencing challenges that they are not able to overcome individually, but when we apply collective action, we're able to move the needle forward so they can experience some success and some improved quality of life in their own mind.
Speaker 1:As you bring this episode to a close, I want to thank our special guests Dr Holmes for being on the show, but really I really want to thank you for answering that call for seeing the need and fixing it. That's what I keep hearing that you saw a need and you fixed it. But I really want to thank your family. But when you talked about your parents and your mom and your dad and granddad and all those who, I think a lot of people see our glory but they don't know our story. They see you as Dr Kimming on all these positions and whatnot, but they don't know the story. And that's what this podcast really is all about giving persons an opportunity to share their story to encourage somebody else.
Speaker 1:I heard you say you grew up with eight children. Dad didn't grab him high school during that time Mom. And I also heard you say the granddad donate land for an elementary school. Yes, my paternal grandfather yeah, that you had a chance to attend. So all these things. Our history is so rich. A lot of stories haven't even been told yet and that's why I do this podcast. But most importantly is that we all give credit to God because we know that if it had not been him from our side, where would we be? We know that, and we want to remind young people that God is alive. He's still watching over, still encouraging us to keep on running, to keep on achieving those goals. So I want to thank you for being our guest today and for building the legacy of encouraging the next generation to pursue higher education and become all that God has for them. So thanks, dr Holmes, for being on the show today.
Speaker 2:It's my pleasure and my final statement is finding and sustaining faith is the assignment.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen, amen. I want to thank our audience for joining us for this enlightening and informed discussion on building a legacy in education. Hope this episode was beneficial to you and, as always, thanks for listening to the Aballer Podcast.
Speaker 3:If you enjoy our show, please share this podcast with your family and friends. Beaballer Podcast is available on all major podcast stations. Be sure to come back next week as we continue to discuss on how to build a lifelong legacy. Until then, don't forget to beaballer. This podcast was created by Coach Tim Brown.