East Cleveland Shaw HS classmate and friend the inspirational Reverend Dr. Terrence Jones, joins me on the show as he reflects on his 50 years of service to the AME Zion Church. Our conversation takes us through the unwavering support of a mother's love to the influence of towering community figures, painting a vivid picture of a life devoted to faith and service. Dr. Jones generously offers wisdom on handling life's trials, nurturing connections within the community, and the necessity of integrating professional skills into a well-rounded ministry that truly resonates with people's hearts.
A legacy isn't just built overnight, the story of Dr. Jones underscores that point with every anecdote and recollection. He shares the essential ingredients for establishing a legacy that endures. Dr. Jones imparts strategies that extend beyond the walls of the church, offering guidance that applies to all walks of life. From maintaining integrity to adapting to change, these insights are not just for those in ministry but for anyone aspiring to leave a positive mark on the world.
As he shares his roles in education, politics, and ministry, it's clear that every step on his vocational path has been foundational to his success—a success measured not in material terms, but in lives touched and spirits uplifted. His mentors, such as Reverend James Stowe and Bishop Richard Fisher, emerge as crucial waypoints in this journey, imprinting lifelong lessons and affirming the power of faith and determination in creating a lasting impact.
As we conclude, we extend an invitation to carry these lessons forward and join us in our mission to carve out a path of meaningful and enduring contribution.
East Cleveland Shaw HS classmate and friend the inspirational Reverend Dr. Terrence Jones, joins me on the show as he reflects on his 50 years of service to the AME Zion Church. Our conversation takes us through the unwavering support of a mother's love to the influence of towering community figures, painting a vivid picture of a life devoted to faith and service. Dr. Jones generously offers wisdom on handling life's trials, nurturing connections within the community, and the necessity of integrating professional skills into a well-rounded ministry that truly resonates with people's hearts.
A legacy isn't just built overnight, the story of Dr. Jones underscores that point with every anecdote and recollection. He shares the essential ingredients for establishing a legacy that endures. Dr. Jones imparts strategies that extend beyond the walls of the church, offering guidance that applies to all walks of life. From maintaining integrity to adapting to change, these insights are not just for those in ministry but for anyone aspiring to leave a positive mark on the world.
As he shares his roles in education, politics, and ministry, it's clear that every step on his vocational path has been foundational to his success—a success measured not in material terms, but in lives touched and spirits uplifted. His mentors, such as Reverend James Stowe and Bishop Richard Fisher, emerge as crucial waypoints in this journey, imprinting lifelong lessons and affirming the power of faith and determination in creating a lasting impact.
As we conclude, we extend an invitation to carry these lessons forward and join us in our mission to carve out a path of meaningful and enduring contribution.
Be a baller. Welcome to Be a Baller podcast. I'm your host, coach Tim Brown, and on the show we talk about building a lifelong legacy, and today's guest is truly a young man, a man who's truly built a legacy in ministry, and that's Reverend Dr Terrence Jones.
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Speaker 1:Dr Jones as a childhood friend. We grew up together in East Cleveland Ohio and went to Ohio University together. Dr Jones has been in ministry over five decades with the AME Zion Church. He's been faithful to his calling and accepted it at a young age. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3:Good evening Tim. Good evening, good evening sir. How are you?
Speaker 1:I am blessed. I am blessed, you know, as we begin the show. Can you talk about growing up in the church and being involved in ministry for over 50 years? You really grew up in the church. Folks talk about growing up in the church, but you really grew up in the church. Can you talk about that experience?
Speaker 3:Well, first of all, my experience of growing up in church.
Speaker 3:I've been like you said, I've been in church all my life.
Speaker 3:I was born in Clareton, pennsylvania, which is probably about 35 miles outside of Pittsburgh, and so I grew up in a AME church in Clareton called First AME, where I had an aunt who was my nursery school teacher and also my Sunday school teacher and her name was Amy Grant and she kind of grounded me in Christianity and being a Christian. And then when my mother and I moved to Cleveland, we kind of moved around and to a couple of different churches and finally landed at St Paul, ame Zion, but I had gone to Mount Zion Congregational and Great Abyssinia Temple Baptist and we finally ended up at St Paul. Oh, in all of it, and we finally ended up at St Paul, amy's Iron Church where my Christian walk really began. And it was a wonderful experience growing up in St Paul and I'm so excited that, as you know, I'm going back to St Paul to celebrate 50 years in ministry and certainly I am excited and blessed and thankful that God led me to St Paul because it provided a wonderful, wonderful background and foundation for me in my Christian walk.
Speaker 1:You mentioned your mom and I know your mother had a strong influence and impact in your life. Can you talk about your mom and that impact she had on your life growing up? Can?
Speaker 3:you talk about your mom and that impact she had on your life growing up. Well, you know she was a single mom and we were away from. She was from Alabama, strong Alabama woman, and we were away from the nuclear part of our family which was either in Alabama or some parts of them were in Clareton. So coming to Cleveland we had she did have a niece there and so coming to Cleveland and making a way and and providing resources and and I could thank God that, as she provided resources, god placed many people in my life, you know, to help her. I had some tremendous people that helped me grow up the walkers from Colin Pose, members like Congressman Louis Stokes and Carl Stokes, gussie Jones, judge Perry B Jackson. All of those persons played a significant part in molding me and making me the person I am today and sometimes my mom was. She pushed me to be out there and to go for the best and to aim high for all of my aspirations that I needed to attain.
Speaker 1:And as you think about those barriers, can you share with the audience some of those life lessons that you learned from your mom that you still use today?
Speaker 3:Never give up. Always put your best foot forward, be able to multitask. She allowed me to do a lot of things, you know being a musician and speaking, and and. And you know I had a. I'm not sure if you remember when we were at Kirk. You know I had a serious surgery. I'm not sure if you remember when my mouth was wired together because I had they broke my jaw in order to rearrange my mouth and I had a tumor that was in the back of my jaw. And I'm not sure you remember that whole period at Kirk where I had to go home for lunch because I had to drink everything out the straw. But my mother always told me to aim high and sometimes, being a belligerent child, I didn't do everything that she taught me to do and it always came back to bite me.
Speaker 1:It usually does, it usually does, it usually does. Mama knows best.
Speaker 3:And she took. No, you know, it was one of her great sayings. I told you so, knucklehead.
Speaker 1:You know, speaking of that, you're called to ministry in 1974 at a Christian education convention. Then you preach your first sermon in 1976. You were a young preacher. What was that like, being called and being a young preacher?
Speaker 3:Oh well, it was challenging. You know, when it was the first time that I had gone to a church conference, we hadn't been. We joined St Paul maybe in the late 60s and I may have been six or seven years old, but you know, we went to this conference where, you know, st Paul was kind of a quiet church and well, you know, they had some good days where we could get down. But to go to this conference where there was a choir from New York that could really sing, and man, they sang, and I'm the Spirit of God fell and I received my calling at this convention.
Speaker 3:I don't think it was what my mother had wanted for me. I think I'd always thought about maybe doing some medical stuff and going into medicine because there was a strong medical profession in our family, and so I thought about maybe going medical school and that's what maybe end up at OU, and so growing up and having this call so early in life I think I may have been 15 to 16. Yeah, yeah, you know it was kind of a I don't say it was a struggle. I think it was something that God was leading me to and wanting me to do. Now, I didn't always want to do it, because that's how I ended up at OU and that's where the big fight with God came into play, because I came to OU to have to do the medical stuff and to get involved with the PA program the physicians pre-medical program at OU, and God was just urging me to do something.
Speaker 3:But you know, I was at OU and going up the hill and having some clashes with. You know what good Christians do when they're away from home. But OU was a good place because at that point I didn't do everything I needed to do. And you know, at OU when you don't do what you need to do, they send a letter home. And my mother said you know, my mother said there's a lot of stuff I'm going to pay for, but you down there, acting a fool, ain't one of them? No, that's right, I didn't come back. But then later on I came back to Cleveland and then that's when God began to mold me and to make me be serious about my Christian walk, but make me be more serious about entering ministry.
Speaker 1:You know, speaking of that, before you got into ministry full time, you worked for a relative that you called Uncle Billy. What else about Uncle Billy?
Speaker 3:Well, you know, I have a little bit of Jamaican. I'm not. You know I worked for May Company for a good while and became like a junior exec for May Company and then I worked for I went to work for Uncle Billy, who is Congressman Louis Stokes and I'm not sure. If you remember I ran all around Cleveland and prepared, worked heavily in his campaign in the 21st Congressional Caucus and did a lot of things for him and then finally I left the congressional office and went to work at the Cleveland Municipal Court. So I went to work for Judge Conley got me into the Cleveland Municipal Court and at that point Uncle Carl was there, or better known to everybody as Carl B Stokes, the first black mayor of Cleveland.
Speaker 3:They're really my cousins but because all of my other little cousins called them Uncle Billy and Uncle Carl, you know I just called them Uncle, but that was a foundation for me because you know I also worked for I had a block grant and I worked for we had a community block grant program that I did. That was in union, in the union community. It's called Union Culture Development Center and so I work there as a teacher and also assistant director. So going to work for Congress of the States was one of those things that kind of bridged me, that helped me to find out that there was more in life and that I had to strive for the betterment of myself and for the kingdom of God.
Speaker 1:Amen. You know what were some of the things you say God was doing in your life during that time to prepare you for a full time ministry as you went down to Livingstone College. What were some of those things God was doing preparing you for that?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, let the record reflect I went to OU and I didn't do everything I needed to do at OU and I came back to Cleveland and, you know, going to Shaw High School was, let me see, we have how can I put this? Shaw had one of the best educational systems, I think, in the country and I think we were noted because of our vocational program. And you know, I was in the DE program at Shaw and I think we were real privileged when you talk about community, that we were privileged to go to Shaw, who had one of the finest vocational programs in the country at the time. I mean, we were noted for it. And so, you know, I worked, I went to DE, I worked for Distributive Education and I worked at Severance, at Baskin and Robbins, and then in the evening I worked for Richmond Brothers, and so those are the type of things that kind of helped me and, as you know, plus, I had to come home from OU and, like you know, my mother was like I ain't paying for you to be crazy, and so I had to come home and really get myself together, which led to 10 years later when God uprooted me.
Speaker 3:I mean uprooted me, I mean, things was going good for me in Cleveland. I mean I had a wonderful job working for the court. I was still doing some things for Congressman Stokes. I had the Union Culture Development Center. My music ministry was taking off. I was set, you know, I was, you know I had moved out of my mom's house and moved to Shake-A-Move. I was just really doing it and God said, I want you to go back where I called you, and I was like, oh Lord, not the living stone, and so that was a fight. You know, that was a fight with God, because I did not want to go to North Carolina. I mean everything. I mean, for lack of a better word, I have gained prominence in Cleveland and to leave prominence and end up at Livingstone was, you know it shook my world, man. I mean I was shaking, you know, but it was probably the best thing that ever happened to me.
Speaker 1:As you think about that experience when you got there, who were some of your early mentors in ministry?
Speaker 3:In Cleveland or when I got to Salisbury. When you got to Salisbury, I would probably have to say I ended up playing for a Baptist church called Baptist church and um called Gethsemane Baptist. Um and Reverend James Stowe um was um the pastor of Gethsemane Um. I had Reverend Samuels, which was the AME Zion pastor of the city. Um that I depended on, um um at that point, you know, the Livingstone is the higher educational institution of the Ames Iron Church and so you know most of our bishops, of our denomination, either went to Livingstone or went to Hood Seminary, where I also graduated from. And so you know people like Bishop Richard Fisher and Bishop Dunstan that they just finished a big consortium here in Salisbury, a couple last week.
Speaker 3:But those were some of the preachers that I encountered growing up in life and who made an impact on my life that built upon the impact that Cleveland preachers had already made in my life. People like Reverend Edward Small at Starlight Baptist Church, people like Otis Moss at all of that you know people. Preachers like AE Campbell at Temple Baptist Church, freddie Brown at Mount Gillian those were some of the preachers that I really looked up to. Reverend Small, I always tell people that I am AME Zion, but my Baptist church home is Starlight Baptist Church in East Cleveland, right, right, right. And of course you know the community when you think about your church, the Lutheran Church. And oh, what was the name of that church in the Hayden? Did you belong?
Speaker 1:I belong to St James.
Speaker 3:And the amazing part is that at that point it shows you that God has a sense of humor. The pastor at St James at that time was from Clareton, pennsylvania. Pastor Hagen yeah, and his father and my dad were friends, and so I forgot to say that. You know, at some point when I didn't get to St Paul or if I didn't get to Starlight, I came to St James for church, you know. So it kind of helped me be ecumenical in my ministry.
Speaker 1:And speaking of that, you've been blessed with quite a few ministry gifts, you know, being an accomplished preacher, musician, singer and all that. What has that meant to you? What has God just gifted you?
Speaker 3:I just think that it was just droppings of god's favor in my life. To help in ministry, um, you know being, you know I've been, always have been, bivocational, except for the last six years in ministry, you know. You know when I working at livingstone. You know when I'm working at Livingstone. You know, one of the great things about coming to North Carolina was that I got my education and because of my involvement in Cleveland and the people that I met through Congressman Stokes, you know, many of those persons came to Livingstone.
Speaker 3:So my work, study, job, I was the college visitor at Livingstone because when Congressman Stokes came to speak at Livingstone, of course I knew him and so I was a driver for him. People like Tony Brown, when they came to Livingstone, I knew them because of my political involvement. And also, you know, I can think of other oh, ruby Dee and her husband when they came to Livingstone, because Ruby Dee had a relative that lived in Cleveland that I knew and so I knew you with Ozzy and Ruby. And so when they came to Livingstone they were like. They were like Terrence is going to drive you. And so they were like, oh, we have known Terrence ever since he was a little boy and so I was the college visit and then after graduation, you know, I became the special assistant to the president of Livingstone and I helped many positions and then I was director of church relations for Livingstone where I was actively recruiting A&E Zion students to come to Livingstone College to matriculate.
Speaker 3:So those were some of the things that kind of bridged the gap for me. And then I went to work for United Way and from United Way to NBC and then in the midst of that I became a furrier and so I was always been bivocational up until the last five years of ministry and then I just did ministry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you kind of glossed over that furrier deal. Oh, you know you can't gloss over that one, because the word is that all the first ladies in the area you know Warrior Minks and all that. Now, how did that come about? How did a brother from Cleveland? He's clearly become a furrier. Where did that?
Speaker 3:come from man, because I had a relationship with Mr Sikra, who owns Sikra's Furs in Cleveland, and, you know, sometime on the side, you know I always went down there and and because you know it was in the downtown area. And then when I came to North Carolina, some of the furriers I met through the SICRAS were jobbers and so they was like, well, terrence Jones knows about furs, and so they hired me and so I began to sell furs and then I had my own fur business for a minute. You know that I sold furs across the country, you know, but even during my time in Connecticut, you know, I worked for the Fur Vault, which is a national furrier, and so you know that was just. You know, I guess there's a little bit of Jamaican in me.
Speaker 1:Word is that your mom was quite an entrepreneur as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you know, we had, you know we worked and she did things for hotels and entertainment areas of Cleveland, so you know, that kind of helped out too. Right, right, right.
Speaker 1:As we flip the page a little bit during these decades, as we really dive into this ministry piece, what would you say has kept you relevant through the decades? Because you've gone through five decades of ministry and we know things have changed in church Christianity, so to speak. What has kept you relevant?
Speaker 3:First of all, my love for God and also being intentional about where God wanted me to be. I think when you're intentional about where God wants you to be and you allow God to really move and flourish your life, then I think that becomes where everything becomes relevant, because everything you do is about ministry. Every position that I ever held, be it political, be it corporate, be it through NBC, through the furrier, through planning, special event planning, through putting together all these facets of vocations that I've had, I took all of that and brought it to the church. I think that made me a successful pastor, because I was able to raise money. I was able to do programming, Although my degree is in sociology.
Speaker 3:I was able to do programming, you know, and although my degree, my degree is in sociology, and so I was able to look at people and look at not where they were, but look to think about where I could take them. And then my love you know that was the other thing that I think is important is that I love people. Love, you know, that was the other thing that I think is important that I love people. And I think when you love people, that helps you tremendously in your pastor, because the people make everything relevant in your nation and you love them and you care for them and you help them through the good times and certainly through the bad times.
Speaker 1:Speaking of that, as you look at young preachers today, what word of wisdom, what word would you speak to young preachers today, getting into ministry to begin their ministry?
Speaker 3:First of all, always seek God, to ask God where he wants to take you. The other thing is to be willing to go where God wants to send you and also to make sure that, if you go towards pastoring, that sometimes it's not how well you can preach, sometimes it's how well you can love on people and how well you love the church. And what would you do to make the church better? In my corporate life I always wanted to make sure that I left my position or I added something to my position that would make the position that I had relevant and would also make it so that somebody coming behind me would have some nuggets to grab onto to enhance that area.
Speaker 1:That's good. That's a good word. That's a good word. You know, as you look at our young preachers today that are getting involved in ministry, what word would you give to a young preacher beginning his ministry today?
Speaker 3:To see God, for where God wants to take you to, willing to go where God wants to send you and be also willing to take what the devil throws at that. You are going and moving at the rate the speed that God is trying to push you to.
Speaker 1:You talked a lot about your experiences in corporate America and different things you've done, how that has helped you in ministry. Can you share with young preachers not to forget about all those other things that they've done? That's kind of prepared them for where they are right now?
Speaker 3:that one of the things that happens, even in my corporate responsibilities, is that you know, there was sales, there was community involvement, there was caring for people, there was fundraising and I, because of all of the vocations that I had, I took all of those vocations to my church. And, man, when the pandemic happened, had I not worked for a TV station, I may not have not known what to do. You know, I remembered that how there was, I could go and get a device from Radio Shack so that I could stand in church and people could listen to the service through the radio in the car. And I did that because I was familiar with the people that owned the drive-in in Cleveland, the drive-in movie theater in Cleveland, and so I was familiar with them.
Speaker 3:You know I had to sell the church again. I mean I had to show people how to come back to church. And you know I had to still do fundraising because the church doors had to still be open. And so how do you entice people, when they're not sitting in the building, to still give to a building of God's kingdom? So all of those corporate experiences, I mean I had to take all of that and throw it into the box and shake it and pull things out and said okay, I can do this and we can do that, and it worked.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there's a scripture that comes to mind that says all things work together.
Speaker 3:For the good of the Lord.
Speaker 1:You love the Lord. Call it according to his purpose. So all those experiences are are working together for, not for our good, but for god's good, you know, because he created all those things. You know, you, you have carried this amount of integrity, been a man of integrity, a man of character and and being, and just being a man of perseverance. You have carried those well. Have you been able to stay rooted and grounded in the word for so many years? You're talking about 50 years. Man, give us the secret sauce. Give me something.
Speaker 3:Man, it just goes back to me loving God. Listen, I was a living testimony to what God could do for you. I mean to take me from Cleveland and throw me in Salisbury, north Carolina, far away. Now I found relatives when I got to North Carolina and South Carolina, but to give up everything that I had to come and God said he would provide. And man, god provided for me the whole time that I was in, and still does you know that's helped me through retirement. God had to speak to me and said did I not take care of you when I brought you out of Cleveland? Yes, god.
Speaker 1:Did I not?
Speaker 3:pray for you. You know, yes, oh yeah, you did that, god you know. Did you ever want for anything? No, god, you provided. I mean I just I give God the glory because he has not let me fall. Even when I decided to retire, people were like, oh man, you're going to give up the church. What are you going to do? Well, first of all, god prepared me for this period. I don't want to be one of these ministers. We talk about being rooted. I think that I go back to the scripture that says to everything there is a season, every purpose under the heaven. It was kind of difficult for me to say that I was going to retire. But, tim, I guess for most of my Christian life, god has always reinvented me seemed like every time.
Speaker 3:But I decided to retire. God had to bring back to my remembrance that he has always taken care of me, and he's taken care of me and gave me favor, because I've always tried to walk the way God wanted me to walk.
Speaker 1:Well, Pastor, I want to thank you for answering that call at a young age. I want to thank you for your commitment to ministry and looking forward to I know you're looking forward to your celebration in the 50 years coming back home to Cleveland where it all began.
Speaker 1:What a blessing. God is good. So this brings us to the end of this episode. I want to thank our special guest, reverend Dr Terrence Jones, for building a legacy in ministry. So I want to thank Dr Jones for enriching the lives of so many and reminding them that God loves us all and that we all matter to him. This has truly been a blessing for me to have my good childhood friend, and just seeing all the things that God has done in your life and I am encouraged you done got me all excited, you know, and all this. So, pastor Jones, terrence, thanks for being on the show. I want to thank the audience for joining us during this enlightening and informative discussion on building a legacy in ministry. I hope this episode was beneficial to you all. As always, thanks for listening to Be A Baller Podcast.
Speaker 4:If you enjoy our show, please share this podcast with your family and friends. Be A Baller Podcast is available on all major podcast stations. Be sure to come back next week as we continue to discuss on how to build a lifelong legacy. Until then, don't forget to be a baller. This podcast was created by Coach Tim Brown. It was edited by Taran Howell and produced and recorded by the video production class of Worthington Christian High School.